Author Topic: Starter for ten...  (Read 12912 times)

Offline Adam G.

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Starter for ten...
« on: November 29, 2006, 08:42:40 AM »
I know Vic is keen on getting a wallboard server app going so I'd thought I'd post some thoughts I've had and see where they take us. These are all assumptions, in no particular order, so feel free to comment:

(1) Does anyone know where generic, cheap LAN wallboard devices can be obtained?
(2) It would be Open Source.
(3) Developed to run on Windows.
(4) Where would the stats come from? Stat Server? GIS? Our own stats engine?
(5) Obviously it would display real-time stats but do we want to use historical stats as well?
(6) Developed in VB, Java, C++?

Well that's my starter for ten.

Pavel
I continue to be tortured by Genesys

Offline victor

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 07:27:58 PM »
Pavel,

you beat me to a punch! But this is what so great about having people who really know their stuff!  :D

Here are my thoughts on the project. Needless to say, I would like to hear what everyone else is thinking about it, and then base our development on the mutual consensus. I hope that someone is better organized than me and is able to put it together in a nicer way so we can post it for everyone to comprehend without reading through all of my jibberish blabbering.  :-\

My initial preference was to suggest C#, but considering that many people are iffy about using .NET or installing it on their machines, I suggest starting with VB for the prototype and then as it gets more stable move to C# (which is not that much different). There are a lot of langauages out there, Java is probably another contender, but I would suggest VB if people do not mind, because it means more people can contribute to the initial design and help us with the coding (plus I am not that good in it too)

Regarding how to collect statistcs, StatServer SDK would require additional licenses and many of our clients do not want to pay additional license fees. Genesys ActiveX is probably the most commonly used component so everyone would have no problem with it. JTAPI is another alternative, but ... well, it IS JTAPI, guys  :P

OS - let's keep it Windows for debugging sake  ;)

We will need some fundamentals to start the discussion on, so, I will try to put together a draft over the next few days, and then start from there.

The initial layout would be :

Wallboard  Server - collect Queue statistics, transmit information to client. Genesys ActiveX-based
Client - ActiveX based client which can be used As-Is or embedded into Browser.  Displays Queue Name and relevant information

I suggest use of TCP and not UDP to avoid possible network-related chagrins and incurring wrath of the local network administrator. (Most of our clients do not allow for UDP between different segements)

(Ok, please feel free to add !!!)

Off to putting together our basic doc!
Vic




Offline mark

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 08:30:24 AM »
I have nothing to add other than an interest in this project. We are potentially looking at a solution for wallboards or an alternative to them, very soon. So this discussion will be very beneficial to my knowledge and understanding :]
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better

Offline Haldane

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 08:17:12 PM »
If using an Active X client the problem would arise if the client failed for some reason, then you would loose all collected stats. You would need a way in which to recover. Biggest problem with wallboards in the CC env is when you have different stats apperaing in differnet apps. For example CCpulse and Symon. You may have a time range of 0-5 seconds for short abandonded calls , on old versions of sysmon they cannot pass down time-range to the GIS server thus returning default time range, thus returing 2 differnet values for Stat Calls answered in X seconds. If there is not uniformity in the data then people will not trust teh data and then refuse to use it. The only solution to ensure that the wallboard matches Genesys is to use GIS or Stat SDK. I can see a Active X Client being a running in the CC environment other than a wallboards for small callcentres 5-15 seats.

Peter

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 11:28:47 PM »
If using an Active X client the problem would arise if the client failed for some reason, then you would loose all collected stats. You would need a way in which to recover. Biggest problem with wallboards in the CC env is when you have different stats apperaing in differnet apps. For example CCpulse and Symon. You may have a time range of 0-5 seconds for short abandonded calls , on old versions of sysmon they cannot pass down time-range to the GIS server thus returning default time range, thus returing 2 differnet values for Stat Calls answered in X seconds. If there is not uniformity in the data then people will not trust teh data and then refuse to use it. The only solution to ensure that the wallboard matches Genesys is to use GIS or Stat SDK. I can see a Active X Client being a running in the CC environment other than a wallboards for small callcentres 5-15 seats.


Your email made me think, Haldane, because I was inclined to side with GENE ActiveX. I am not familiar with GIS that much, so I will list why I think GENEActive X should be sufficient.

There are several reasons why I prefer GENE Active X to GIS. In my mind these reasons are boilled down to:

  • GIS requires license
  • GIS uses Stat Server proprietary protocol meaning any information that is available on T-Server but not Stat Server would not be passed on to the client
  • losing connection between wallboard server and T-Server would be equivalent to losing connection between T-Server and Stat Server. For both products it would mean missing several events, but it should not make all stats invalid./li]
I assume that use of addp with GENE Active X should be good enough to detect any disconnects.
From your post, I assume that you are very knowledgable about GIS and how it works, so if we are about to make a mistake by choosing GENE Active X please tell us.

I do not think that any of us would want to use if for a 15 seat call centre. (Do any of them even use Genesys?)

Offline victor

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 10:22:57 AM »
I think both GIS and Active X are a good way to connect to Genesys. From programming point of view, GIS or Active X is pretty much the same, though I feel that Active X would give us a lot more flexibility. Another important point for Active X is that more people can program using Genesys Active X control than GIS.

So, I would suggest starting with Active X and than adding a GIS option for those who have it. What do you think, guys?


Offline Haldane

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 08:14:30 PM »
Quote
From programming point of view, GIS or Active X is pretty much the same,

Victor,
   From a high level yes I agree with you. i.e Application makes a request to server side object and a value is returned but once you actually start programming the methods are different. With GIS all requests go to a webservice, with Active X all request go to Tserver. To get things going your probably right to stick to Active X or go one better and use the Tlibary which opens up alot more functionality and means the code can be devloped on nemerous platforms and comined together i.e Clint interface with TServer in VB6 ( As most people could code this quite easy , but would be better in C++ or C#) Middleware interface to Wallboard and DB any language ( hold config and even historical stats). The reason you would keep both seperate is to allow for different wallboard interfaces i.e. much in the way you have a different Tserver for different switch. This way also means the project can be split into 2-3 parts.... Spread the work.


Offline Adam G.

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2006, 08:24:59 PM »
Does anyone know what the licensing legals are for using the different methods?

It would be a shame if Genesys stopped this project in its tracks because we weren't licensed to use a particular method.

I continue to be tortured by Genesys

Offline Haldane

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2006, 08:42:15 PM »
Rule of thumb when using TLIB is that you  can't develop an application that competes with a Genesys (licensed) product. Using Active X is completely at the customers discretion, but remember if a clinent registers for a DN then it is using a SDN license. AS for the rest I'm not really sure and the above is not offical quote from Genesys.... If in doubt contact your Genesys Account Manager, although I'm sure you'll get a vauge reply.

Offline René

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 06:37:55 PM »
Hi all,

I read the posts and most of you are interested in using TLib/ActiveX Toolkit for development. I don't think it's a good idea because of

- It will be very difficult to get same data (values) as from StatServer especially in multisite environment. And I'm pretty sure that most of the customers are using CCPulse+ and they will compare statistics on the wallboards with CCPulse+. If they find any difference they are going to "beat" you and "complain" about the wallboard solution. They will. Trust me >:(

- Genesys is going to drop off (start of EOL) T-Library SDKs (T-Lib, ActiveX and Java Desktop toolkit) starting Genesys 7.5. The support will finish in 2009 (maybe earlier...)

- There are SDKs allowing in-direct (Statistics SDK Web Services via GIS) or direct (Statistics Platform SDK .NET) communication with StatServer. The only issue with these SDKs is that you need a license from Genesys.

René

Offline victor

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2006, 01:01:21 PM »
Hi all,

I read the posts and most of you are interested in using TLib/ActiveX Toolkit for development. I don't think it's a good idea because of

- It will be very difficult to get same data (values) as from StatServer especially in multisite environment. And I'm pretty sure that most of the customers are using CCPulse+ and they will compare statistics on the wallboards with CCPulse+. If they find any difference they are going to "beat" you and "complain" about the wallboard solution. They will. Trust me >:(

- Genesys is going to drop off (start of EOL) T-Library SDKs (T-Lib, ActiveX and Java Desktop toolkit) starting Genesys 7.5. The support will finish in 2009 (maybe earlier...)

- There are SDKs allowing in-direct (Statistics SDK Web Services via GIS) or direct (Statistics Platform SDK .NET) communication with StatServer. The only issue with these SDKs is that you need a license from Genesys.

René

René,

SDK sounds like a great way to proceed, but most of us do not have it. And yes, you are right, client would compare it with CCP, but I do not see why the stats would differ. At least not for EventQueued/EventDiverted, because Stat Server uses the same events to track the calls.

BTW< what will ActiveX be replaced by?

Best regards,
Vic

Offline René

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Re: Starter for ten...
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 09:35:52 PM »
Vic,

You're right that simple statistics like number of calls in queue etc. should not be an issue. But I would say the wallboard solution should support more complex statistics like number of calls filtered by Attached Data, number of agents in a group etc. And that could be "a challenge" when using just ActiveX Toolkit.

The replacement for ActiveX Toolkit is Voice Platform SDK. Regarding information I have Genesys is still working on upgrade policy from T-Lib to Voice Platform SDK. Maybe they will provide it for free for existing customers using ActiveX Toolkit. But that's just my opinion (better say - wish ;-))

René