Genesys CTI User Forum
Genesys CTI User Forum => Announcements Scratch Board => Topic started by: Gulden_NL on February 06, 2009, 06:20:02 AM
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I am curious if my long history as a Genesys customer/consultant/MSP since 1995 has jaded my perception of Genesys support. Personally I felt that their support service peaked somewhere around 1998-1999. I've seen a long slide downward since.
Is it just me? There are days where I curse their organizational structure and the "big company" vibes I get from trying to dance with them.
I am making a big decision soon about moving forward with Genesys or going in another direction. I've felt the "big company" pains outside of tech support too, but support is what is killing their future with us today.
Am I being too tough on them?
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I pick "Getting worse"
You're not alone; I have the same feeling as yours.
I started using Genesys in 1999 (Genesys 5.1) and 'useful' replies from Support could be around 1999 to 2000.
After that up to now, it depends if you are lucky enough to have your SR (or called trouble-ticket in old days) assigned to experienced Support staff.
[quote][b]Am I being too tough on them?[/b][/quote]
A good point to think about; it is about relativity
Once one has learned Genesys skills and field experiences, he can be more demanding.
However, for experienced GCE, he will not issue SR unless the issue cannot be resolved by various attempts including Genesys knowledge-base searching, manual reading and testing.
These SRs are usually too tough for new Genesys Support who has no or little field experience.
My personal view point is that unqualified support (and unqualified SI delivery!) may make Genesys loss some businesses in small to medium size sites. In large enterprise sites, Genesys may still survive for a long period of time.
BTW, it seems that Support or Professional Server quality degrading occurs in many systems / areas; thus, not Genesys alone.
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I have to say I agree with the getting worse. Every ticket I open about develop or something similar they try to make me hire PS. After I push enough and they ask someone else they answer with good info but if not go to PS, and many times PS is just a guy who doesn't know too much neither...
Until 2 years ago things were different, they were more proactive and tried to really help.
Bad for us, bad for them
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cavagaro,
You bring up a good point and I didn't want to sound like I was beating Genesys to death. But PS is an absolute NYET! in my company. I got a very good TAM in 2005 and asked that they not pull him until we went live. Guess what? Moved to VAST and even before he was pulled, I could tell that they were taking a lot of time from him spending it with us. I escalated all the way to Wes Hayden, but to no avail. We got another guy that was supposed to be a GVP expert, he came over to Genesys from Telera, but we had an employee that was ex-Telera and she said "he's worthless." Right she was. I won't go into detail but we didn't receive much value. So we have placed a ban on Genesys PS for now.
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NYET, TAM, VAST you've lost me......... ???
I did appreciate your comment about support peaking in 98-99 ;)
I have a number of thoughts about issues raised in this thread....
[list]
[li]As more products have been added to the Genesys product range then obviously the amount of knowledge required has leapt considerably. Back in 98-99 we only really needed to know about Inbound in real depth plus a little bit about Outbound and Reporting. Support now are expected (obviously) to know dozens of products in detail.
[/li]
[li]Over time those of us who have to deal with Support have become more and more informed, this means that when we raise our tickets they are getting more and more difficult - I know now that if I raise a ticket it'll have to be answered by 3rd Line or a developer because the problem will be bug related.[/li]
[li]As Genesys have grown in size they have beefed up Support but not by many technical staff but my lots and lots of 'managers' who's job is to deflect questions rather than answer them. In the end, eventually, here in Europe most questions get answered by the same 2 guys in Kiev.[/li]
[li]Never ask a Hyperion question to Genesys as their knowledge is zero\nil\nada\ziltch.[/li]
[/list]
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My thoughts are exactly - I mean exactly - what Pavel said... weird!
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[quote author=Pavel link=topic=3817.msg16494#msg16494 date=1233946881]
NYET, TAM, VAST you've lost me......... ???
[list][li]Never ask a Hyperion question to Genesys as their knowledge is zero\nil\nada\ziltch.[/li][/list]
[/quote]
Or Nyet! Sorry, tried to be funny about the Kiev support guys' favorite word in Russian. Actually it is Nee in Ukrainian, or No in English.
TAM is Technical Account Manager. You pay a lot for them and you usually have to be doing millions in revenue to get one assigned.
VAST = Value Added Solutions Team which is a growing group of PS consulting people within Genesys. Mike McBrien was the first leader back in '05 but he's since been promoted to Senior Vice President, Asia Pacific. A Detroit boy and a fellow alumnus of Western Michigan University. One of the good guys at Genesys.
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Does Genesys only support partners or end users as well?
I ask this because we have used Genesys since 2002 but are supported by a third party (another question? good or bad??) so if we have a problem, this third partu support opens a ticket with Genesys.
Looking at the Genesyslabs website, in order to open trouble tickets with them, you have to complete a form, which appears to be a [i]'give us a reason to help you'[/i] application!
WA
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Support directly to end users will be a endless circle, our job is to eat all those questions and day-to-day problems. Only partners can raise tickets.
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[quote author=cavagnaro link=topic=3817.msg16515#msg16515 date=1234074952]
Support directly to end users will be a endless circle, our job is to eat all those questions and day-to-day problems. Only partners can raise tickets.
[/quote]That's not correct. Who opens tickets depends entirely on the sales and maintenance agreements. A large number of tickets are opened every day by direct end users (who have direct maintenance agreements).
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Hum...we were not allowed to do that when asked to Genesys...maybe only trained customers?
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I have been dealing with Genesys support for 3 years now. While in many cases they have given excellent support and advise and have been real good help. It has been my experience that most of the times you have to call up few big guyz to make things move faster .Otherwise even critical tickets stay with tier 3/developers for months without any update. And when response comes ,many cases it's standard support reply without giving details on the specifc case for which SR was raised . Another funny thing is support site does not allow you to create a SR with highest priority (1-Critical). You can only request Genesys to do that .
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Manas,
You mention the procedure about not allowing critical tickets to be opened by the end user. What Genesys wants to do is have you open an SR with High, then phone them to discuss. To be fair, if it is truly critical, they want real time communication but opening the SR gets it into Siebel and then they have some written information and hopefully you have uploaded some logs.
I just reviewed their SR process with their Support Mgmt yesterday due to some slow responses. I mentioned critical and whether we could get real time web conferences going when we do have a critical (last time was 2004) and they said sure, and that was their current preferred way to problem solve.
I agree with you about the length of getting some of the SRs closed.
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On average, they are doing pretty well, except for the "average" SRs, when answer is something you need in a day or two, but takes a week or two instead. One thing I hate is that after issuing a ticket and waiting for an answer, you finalyl get a reply telling me that: a. it was fixed in a newer version and I need to upgrade or b. they need more information before resolving this.
From a support side, this makes sense, since you receive a ticket, you look into it, you try to resolve it, and then you get back with a follow up. But from client side, it usually infuriates the client, because for one reason or another, CRITICAL means NOW, NORMAL means by tomorrow, and LOW means within a week. It may not apply to all the clients, but on average, LOWs take a few weeks to get back, and by then, you already would either fix it, abandon it, or figure a way to by-pass it.
I guess this sort of mentality divide is something intrinsic to the industry as a whole, thus there is not much you can do other than hiring all Genesys engineers and keeping them in your call center ::)
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[quote author=victor link=topic=3817.msg16703#msg16703 date=1234498464]
One thing I hate is that after issuing a ticket and waiting for an answer, you finalyl get a reply telling me that: a. it was fixed in a newer version and I need to upgrade or b. they need more information before resolving this.
[/quote]
What I really can't stand is when:
# I open a SR describing the issue with several details, like ConnIDs, timestamps and so on
# I upload the logs
# They give a generic reply
# I got back to them with "But have you looked at the call I am talking about?"
# They answer "can you provide me with the logs?"
# ---> Fra's f"£$%^*@~!!!!!!
..
# "Can you extract the db conf and send it to me along with the logs from the Big Bang startup?"
Sure.
Fra
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I pushed Genesys Support once for Mission Critical Support. I outlined some local processes that they might want to deploy, aside from SCS/SCI which not only Alerts but also takes reporting actions, by gathering;
A snapshot of the environment.
A Log File Extract for the Mission Critical failure.
Any other associated logs (OS System Logs, etc.)
Anything else that their Support Engineers might need to assist them to resolve the issue immediately.
- My idea was for the component to locate and extract all of these items, ZIP them up and ship them off to Genesys (via (S)FTP), alert them as to the Mission Critical Failure, automatically logging an SR and confirming the actions taken to the Customer, without local intervention.
I really didn't think this would be difficult to achieve - I wonder what happened to the idea... ::)
Tony
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Tony, take a look at http://www.genesyslab.com/services_support/ExpertOperations.pdf
The Expert Operations team provides Mission Critical Services as an additional service offering beyond standard technical support. This has been around for over a year now.
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All this "mission critical" support is a nice concept -- but as I told Genesys -- Step 1 is is insuring engineering builds the apps for "mission critical".
I can't comprehend how they built things like the 7.6 T-Server that were not backward compatible and required taking down both the primary and backup in order to do an upgrade...
And don't get me started about URS :-)
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MCS, mmmmmm, well I guess Genesys got their message across to their customers about it. NOT!
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Oh dear oh dear oh dear....
Here is what I know from my previous attempts to "help out" Genesys:
1. I approached Genesys about 2 years ago and suggested a higher level of support for critical items and they listened to what I had to say about how they could go about it - but refused to raise an FR. Diane said "we'll see"... Then, about 6 months later Diane told me they were looking into the possibility of MSC. Then (and only because this is in this thread) I find they they have released MCS as a costed service and they didn't even bother to tell me about it...
2. Would I mind helping Genesys determining the tools, content and layout of their updated Better Interactions Forum? Yeah I did that, too. As soon as they decided on vBulletin and took some advice and pointers about the content and layout and the pilot was over, Jose dropped off the radar - last note from him was July last year...
- I am just so pi$$ed off with the "take! take! take!" attitude of Genesys. I'm usually a gentle soul but without recognition for any of the assistance, advice, guidance, consultancy and feedback they get from us (and I do mean the contributors of this Forum) it would appear that they are spot on when they point out that "us lot" are "just the fans".
I doubt this will go anywhere but I can hope that someone with the accountability in Genesys takes a long hard look at how they recognize their supporting engineers customer base for the advice and input based on [b]real-world experiences[/b] that they "absorb" and then use to enhance their opportunities for sales and services...
[i]Sorry for my baDdeR engLish but I get that way when I'm rattled![/i]
>:D
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Tony,
Firstly to use an old 1980's phrase 'take a chill pill'. The other point it just shows there is a significant level of [b]arrogance[/b] shown by a significant minority of Genesys employees over the years. I know of a number of ideas that have been discussed with Genesys and then later 'stolen'.
Chill,
Pavel
;)
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Pavel, Tony,
may I ask why it is "stolen"? Based on what I read, to me it is simply an implementation of what Tony has asked...
What am I missing here? ???
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OK OK - chill pill taken! :)
An FR is tracked - it would have come from me, personally. The concept of an automated monitoring service was what I wanted to request and it was refused. Lo and behold, some months later it's being sold as a premium service.
I don't mind that it's been produced - I do mind that my concept was "shelved" and then implemented and is being sold and I was not informed.
The reason it is "OK" is that I have learnt something. ;)
Tony
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Vic,
I don't want to get into trouble by discussing 'stolen' ideas on a public forum because the only people who win in these circumstances are the lawyers.
One example I will use is The Wire. Why do you think the magazine was publicly launched in a rush? It was because Genesys were informed via this forum what was planned and obviously I didn't want the idea stolen from me. ;D
Pavel
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You know, I am seeing a bit of myself in all of these posts. No, I am not talking about stolen ideas or having fur and visiting Minsk for a stag party.
What I am seeing is an attitude that is starting to see Genesys in negative light. And we are not talking about technology here. Genesys corporate culture is something that has been a big question mark from very beginning. Until mid of last year, I was very frustrated with Genesys Japan and I thought it was a pretty good example of how Genesys as a whole was. Boy was I wrong! Meeting Paul Roberts, his boss, and then Mike McBrien, Paul Von Fischer (in his new capacity :) ) and quite a few other people changed my mind. Since major restructuring in Genesys Japan last year, I have nothing but good things to say about them these days.
It seems like there are always few rotten seeds everywhere and in many instances it is mere mis-communication or inability to get the right channel within Genesys that leads to total breakdown in communication. What is really sad, thought, is that while we are fuming over a particular issue, the people who care the most about it at Genesys are not even aware of it! So, my advice would be to really raise the problem and make sure that it is being heard, because chances are, they really want to know about it.
Wow...look at me pouring praise on Genesys.... wow... but hey, what is true is true. :)
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I found the problem a couple year ago. the problem from Genesys is : hierarchy. Well ,you know the ownership is french compagny Alcatel. French people like the hierarchy. Sometimes it could create some problem.
Ex: I got a problem with purge in Datamart. The problem was painfully for Database backup. I created the ticket as high. Nothing is moving forward. I got the opportunity to discuss with Genesys develop. He was from Russian, good person. He told me my problem was very easy resolve. The reason why he was not able to fix the priority of the ticket was not at critical. I asked them how long it will take to resolve my problem. I told me half day. After I met him i increased the priority.I got a call next days with a fix available.
Tip, if you are not satisfied from you ticket don't hesistate to escalade your ticket. Ask them how long they could get fix your problem. You should laughing about hierarchy and go directly to the right person.
For the french people I offended. Sorry about that but this is a fact. I could undestand because i'm french either ;)
JF
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Hum...Alcatel support has nothing to do. Genesys support is very separated from Alcatel support, I know because I use both.
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I just heard something that totally must have scared the living "pants" out of Genesys. I think the person who told me this will probably mention it here as well... Until then, all I got to say is...HOLY MOTHER OF GOD.
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Stop with the teasing Vic!
;D
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???
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??? ??? ??? ??? too
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I jut got notification that Genesys have re-launched their Forum... is that it...???
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yeah..but I don't think will impact on us...I remember only a few posts and answers, I believe we answered more there than even Genesys guys
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Tada! https://forums.genesyslab.com/
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Hi there everyone,
Been a while since I've posted on here. Hope I'm still welcome... :(
Just reading through this thread and I wanted to take the opportunity to apologize to Tony - the last thing I wanted was to leave you with a feeling of being used by Genesys. When we starting the (unnecessarily long in my opinion) process of evaluating/selecting a platform for our new forum, we really wanted to enlist the help of key Genesys users to help us develop something that people would actually like. After our previous attempt with Better Interactions, we saw this as absolutely critical. The input you and the other customers gave us was fantastic and I genuinely thank you for it. You guys on this forum are so passionate about Genesys we really wanted to consult you about what we were doing and give you a say in it. I guess it didn't work out as I had hoped. The intention was always to give Genesys customers what they wanted - a means of talking to Genesys through a channel that was user friendly - rather than using your knowledge to benefit us in some sinister way. If that intention didn't come across I'm very sorry and I'll take responsibility for it.
In my role at Genesys I'm always very conscious of burdening our customers with too many requests especially since everyone has day jobs and in your case Tony, that is added to by your tireless work on here. I guess I should have found a better balance between consulting you and showing how that feedback impacted our decisions; making sure i closed the reporting loop in the process. I guess my concern was you thinking 'Genesys is plaguing me with more requests, information etc'
I'm a big fan of this site and the great work the core team does on here. Genesys is very keen to embrace this kind of independent site and I admire the time, energy and effort you expend here and in The Wire too (and I didn't use the work leverage once!).
As I say, I'm very sorry if the process left you feeling a little used. That was actually polar opposite to our original plan.
Paul
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Thank you Paul - I have left you a PM... :)
Tony
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[quote author=Paul Roberts link=topic=3817.msg16930#msg16930 date=1235448907]
Hi there everyone,
Been a while since I've posted on here. Hope I'm still welcome... :(
[/quote]
Paul,
of course you are welcome. I think conversation in this thread moved away from Genesys Support problems to something else entirely, so we better probably split the topics (and ban our Brazilian friend, Cav, from any more posts in a process >:D ).
I think the whole thing boils down to less of "feeling used" than of feeling useful. You have to concede that right now there is not a lot of effort in Genesys about harnessing the energy and support of overall Genesys user community. You have been our most ardent supporter and it will be some time before all your ideas about harnessing the incredible potential of Genesys user community will be realized. Re-starting Genesys forum is a good move; however, as I have mentioned in my previous emails, you will be going head-to-head with PS, TS and whatever other two-letter and three letter and even four-letter acronyms.
In some ways, I think all of us here are a bit full of ourselves, because most of us here are simply because we are Genesys Fans. Genesys did not ask us to become fans, yet, here we are, asking to be recognized for ...just being fans. And we huff and we puff when we do not get something shiny in the mail telling us how much Genesys is grateful to us for what we do.
This reminds me of pretty much every Anime Fan club that have regular meetings, dress up in tight shiny pink and green costumes, have shiny laser guns and a collection of used manga books they trade among themselves. Unless they are organized and have a nationwide following, Anime Publishers try to stay away from them. And in most cases, for very good reason: no worth the trouble; too much hassle; not connected to direct revenue and so on and so forth.
While most of us are working with Genesys, many of us are not in a position to really make a difference for Genesys. We usually get there when Genesys implementation has already been decided upon, plus in rare cases when we do make a case for Genesys roll-out, we depend on that roll-out even more than Genesys, so it is in our own best interests to push Genesys product as much as we can.
I guess our own dependence on Genesys CTI makes ALU less interested in what we have to say, because this is not where the money is. The money is with decision-makers and here most of us are much much below that. We are the techies, the consultants, we are Genesys Fan Club. Until now, it was hard to measure the economic impact our activity has Genesys sales. And because of that, this makes us irrelevant.
No one has asked me to start Genesys Forum, yet I did it. The result is that we have on average 300,000 hits a month on this forum. It is hard to argue the immense benefit Genesys enjoys from this site. Yet, while ALU's marketing budget is measured in hundreds of millions and Genesys is paying huge sums of money to advertise its products, this site is yet to receive a cent.
Pavel launched Wire. Did Genesys offer him anything? Yes, an interview for a second edition and some money that probably will not even be enough to cover the printing of letter "W" in the title of that magazine. And that magazine was ALL ABOUT GENESYS.
I was thinking: what would happen if I start allowing ads from Avaya or Cisco on this forum? Or how about allowing posts soliciting Genesys to Avaya migration? I get a dozen offers a week from different companies willing to pay for placing an ad like that.
I wonder - how much would Avaya give me for this forum...
I wonder how much Cisco would pay Tony to write HOW-TO GUIDES for migration from Genesys CTI to Cisco
I wonder how much more Genesys TS costs would be if we decided to stop answering all Genesys-related queries from India
What does Genesys think will happen if I let Google walk freely on our website? How many Genesys SIers would still show up on front page when you google "Genesys CTI"?
I am sure that you, Paul, are not the only person in the company who is realizing that it is time to take advantage of the immense opportunity this user base offers; however, I have this nagging feeling that you are the only one who wants to see that we all get the credit we deserve.
[b][color=red]I am tired of being a fan, if that means being screwed left and right. It is time for some recognition. A real one.
[/color][/b]
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:-X Will post even when I have been banned ;D
I completely understand you Vic, as you know I also support an Alcatel forum, similar to this one. We also have a lot of tempations from competitors asking us to buy the forum, even once Alcatel offered a sum, which was not even a decent one. However we always decline because we love what we do, as I do on this forum. I understand the feeling completely and agree 100% with you. However expecting to Genesys or ALU offer to recognice our job (and the support we give to their support guys...) is asking a pig to fly...at least not in the way we would love to see.
So as a fan, will stay as a fan because I chose to...if Genesys or ALU gives (not us) but to the forum some recognition will be as steping the moon, as that exciting. ;D
PS: I'm already tramiting my Brasilian residency...lol
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[quote author=victor link=topic=3817.msg17006#msg17006 date=1235708923]
Pavel launched Wire. Did Genesys offer him anything? Yes, an interview for a second edition and some money that probably will not even be enough to cover the printing of letter "W" in the title of that magazine. And that magazine was ALL ABOUT GENESYS.
[/quote]
Yo Herr Shvetsky,
I have to stand up here. Since The Wire has come out Genesys have helped a lot more than than you suggest. Every day I'm speaking to a different person in SF or Dallas or Canada or the UK and all of this because Paul is opening doors for the magazine. So far this week alone I've interviewed a VP and had in-depth, multiple, discussions with lots of people about GVP8 and the SDKs. On top of that I'm reading documentation until 2am every day as ground work for my GVP8 review. This is all possible because of Paul. Yes, I have been frustrated in the past but with hindsight this is what I should have expected - until the mag went out it was pure vapourware but now it exists, it's a whole different scenario and Genesys are helping as much as they can. By the interest I'm getting it looks like The Wire could be the unofficial Genesys house magazine. Does anyone here know if there is an in house magazine?
As for the financial side you're almost right. I'm trying to get advertising from Genesys Partners and Genesys themselves to cover the costs as I paid for the first edition out of my own pocket. The second edition will happen too but I personally can not afford to do a third edition and various people at Genesys have been informed of this. So far no-one has offered or paid a cent to help. What The Wire is, is the most cost effective way Genesys and their partners have to communicate with the existing community. Is there a better way to 'up-sell' their software and services?
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Pavel,
this is the point - it is all Paul. He is the one who recognized the importance of this community. It was him who pushed for promoting on this forum. It was him who pushed for you to get the meetings with the right people. In other words, this is all thanks to Paul and I am thankful to this guy. But, I am seeing how hard it is for him to do this too. And this is what bothers me. He is supporting us because he really believes that this is the right move for Genesys; however, there is only so much that he can do. And this is the problem. We need to give him more ammunition, since it is in our best interests to make sure that he gets heard and his ideas about how to encompass online community presence into Genesys corporate culture are actually implemented. So, I have decided to reconsider allowing Genesys competition to start advertising on this forum. I bet that with Avaya IC article blatantly posted next to HOW-TO Genesys-to-Avaya GUIDES on this forum will probably get things rolling much faster and will have much more impact than anything else we might do.
As for The Wire, Pavel they are doing this because you caught them off-guard and published a magazine all on your own. Plus, since you are actually going to mail it to people whether or not Genesys supports you or not gives them little choice. By the way, I am a bit surprised you think that telling Genesys that unless they front up your third edition The Wire is history is going to somehow persuade them to give you more money. Think about it - are you reaching any new audience that they cannot cover already? Are you providing them with any new value that their own publication cannot generate on its own?
If someone started a magazine about Star Systems and started emailing it to my employees and clients, I would make sure that I get my voice heard in it and I would throw in some money to buy good will, but if I were told that unless I pay for printing the magazine is going to be gone, I would let it die. Nicely. Because, I would not want it to exist in a first place run by someone from outside without my full control. Plus, it would be cheaper and more effective to build upon that issue and start my own mag, adding user content to it along with official STAR news.
I am pretty certain that expecting Genesys to foot The Wire is a bit silly and presumption. You need strong financial backing, Pavel, otherwise, you will lose money. You need a lot more than a shiny (and really awesome!!!!) edition to convince Genesys that you can reach an audience that their PR machine can't.
For the record: I love The Wire and I want you to succeed.
Also, for the record: I want Paul to succeed. But, we can't forget that Paul is a low-level manager in a division inside ALU and there is only so much he can do. This is why I think I better start making waves. BECAUSE we need Paul to succeed.
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Hey guys,
Greetings. Vick I know you but I’m looking forward to meeting the rest of the gang personally at some point.
You guys always bring up some very good points on this forum. We're doing our best to proactively engage the community. In the past few years we have doubled our product advisory councils, relaunched our Genesys forums, expanded our GForce user conferences to more regions, doubled the number of user groups globally, and revamped our GCAP program specifically to engage more folks like you who are actively involved in the Genesys community. This is the result of Paul AND 100’s of people from different groups within Genesys focused on Genesys customers and partners. There has also been a lot of work done in the areas of tech support and product quality.
This doesn’t mean there’s no room for improvement. There certainly is. As you know it’s a journey.
We take customer input very seriously. I think there may not be enough visibility into what Genesys has been doing to address the issues raised on this board. Some of them are very complex, some of them take time, and some of them may have been addressed unbeknownst to you.
I think there’s an opportunity for more dialogue to understand where each side is coming from and to see what core issues we need to tackle together. We'll follow up on this.
In the end we’re all working towards the same end result.
Arnaud
Arnaud Kraaijvanger
Vice President Marketing Programs
Genesys
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Arnaud,
thank you for your post. I read and re-read your post and you are talking here about how Genesys is putting a lot of emphasis on customer feedback and proactively managing relation with its clients. No one is here saying Genesys is not doing it: Genesys has been pretty good about this for a very long. G-Force is one of many examples of that. We are not talking about Genesys customer programs here in this sense. We are talking about Genesys fan base.
The whole conversation here is about lack of any visible policies at Genesys regarding tapping into and supporting its online community and my failure to get this forum the attention it deserves within Genesys. With 300,000 hits per month and over 1400 registered users this is THE portal for Genesys online community outside Genesys support site. So, the fact that you and me have met only once in the last year is a good example of what I am describing as my failure to properly address the needs of our community.
How many seminars, webinars, press releases, product trial outs, meet-the-experts and so on Genesys had last year? Hundreds. The fact that we only have two Genesys-related events posted on this site for the whole of last year clearly indicates the lack of strategy within Genesys to pro-actively support its fan base.
People like me and our efforts to help other users are just taken for granted. As my earlier post clear states, this is to be expected since we are viewed as "Genesys fans". Genesys did not ask me to start this forum, nor did they ask me to spend countless hours every week trying to help other Genesys users. I do it because I really enjoy it and because I feel that I can really help other Genesys users out there to fully realize the potential of what this truly visionary product has to offer. I am sure other peope on this forum are pretty much the same.
It is just I am getting tired of being taken for granted.
Once again, I don't blame Genesys for ignoring this community nor do I blame Genesys for not actively supporting it. As you have wrote yourself, there is a lot of activity within Genesys to address the needs of its users. Some of it we see. Some of it we don't. So, it is not Genesys that I blame. Especially not Paul, nor you. It would be silly if I did. Nor would it get me anywhere.
I blame myself. I blame myself for not realizing earlier that if I wanted to have a greater impact in helping our users, I have to stop acting as just being "Genesys fan" and apply the same principals to running this forum as I do with running our company. Call center market has been reshaping for quite some time, and if we are to continue to support the needs of Genesys user community on this forum to the best of our abilities, it is time we start reflecting these changes.
I would love to have some input from Genesys on what changes would be best suited to address the ever-changing needs of our community; however, perhaps it is time to start welcoming the input from other platform vendors that interconnect with Genesys CTI, because we cannot ignore the strong inter-dependence between Genesys and Avaya, Cisco, Siemens and other manufacturers.
This brings me to another important point: end-user. Until now, it has been all about Genesys for the sake of Genesys. And I feel that we ignoring the obvious: reality that perhaps having Genesys at the end of the day might not be the best answer for the end-user. I, for one, would love to learn more about how migration from PBX-Genesys solution to Genesys SIP-only solution compares to PBX-only solution. I would love to have a resource helping me decide what is best for my end-user, offering me help with upgrades and migrations, allowing me for once to step away from what I want, and understand what is better for my user. Regardless of my own preference.
And this, my friends, what makes the difference between a Genesys fan and Genesys Pro.
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from simple question about support to hard conversation about Genesys. i think it's happen not an every day. and may i put my 5 cent about This Genesys comunity and official genesys suport policy inside the Russia?
well, then i start my own experiense as genesys engineer ( it's happen about one year ago) i jast find oneself in the right place at the right time =) my company start the first project as the genesys parthner but we hav't any competent people. and i took it upon themselves. got one dvd with distrib, another with docs...and it's all. after two or three answer from genesys technical guys - " jast run the wizard and it's do it right. but if in result it's not work jast reinstall it". so after it i as the google and found THIS COMMUNITY. And after one years i think and and ask self about - if not this forum could i do in this year all that i made and reach? who know?
well, i want said what no one from official info resource and public genesys "community" can't gave me all what i got from THIS forum.
and another moment, about Gforce and over such activites - it's great. but it is difficult to be effective for the whole world. And it's not a price question. It's jast a political. who travel to such activites from Russia? sales, manager and over co-, vice- and over prisident. what activites make Genesys locale - only sales, marketing and over. if it contain technical content at that all what i already read in the docs and in the conversation with people from this forum.
WBR Timur.
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I really don't know Genesys has 'adjusted' pre-requisites as being Genesys partner or VAR!
Years ago, Genesys partner/VAR must have trained GCE(s) to fulfill part of pre-requisites.
(Or, this pre-requisite was regional dependent?)
Could anyone clarify this point?
Anyway, having completed GCE training courses are not enough; fields experiences are critical as well.
There are many people here without basic Genesys training; they start everything themselves in the hard way by reading manuals, testing and, of course, posting questions here and there. Their lifes would be a bit easier if they had taken basic Genesys training.
A real case some years ago: A Genesys VAR sent an "Genesys Engineer" to fix CCA reports but he did not know what to and how to login DMA. The fact was the "Genesys Engineer" was very new without Genesys knowledge but was appointed to do so.
Genesys could possibly enforce policy on VAR's pre-requisites, to save Genesys image at customer sites!
Ok, fine. If Genesys believes VARs' engineers can self-learn Genesys products and are 'sufficient', it may be a big mistake.
Genesys Support is another issue. For reply such as
"jast run the wizard and it's do it right. but if in result it's not work jast reinstall it".
is quite common; it is possibly, regions and end-user dependent. It seems that Genesys may assign experienced engineers to support big accounts, or those big accounts force (or/and pay!) Genesys to do so; who know!
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[quote author=bcyk link=topic=3817.msg17025#msg17025 date=1235833876]
I really don't know Genesys has 'adjusted' pre-requisites as being Genesys partner or VAR!
[/quote]
and now it true
[quote]
Years ago, Genesys partner/VAR must have trained GCE(s) to fulfill part of pre-requisites.
(Or, this pre-requisite was regional dependent?)
Could anyone clarify this point?
[/quote]
not only trained but also [b]certified[/b]
[quote]
Anyway, having completed GCE training courses are not enough; fields experiences are critical as well.
[/quote]
thas it my point too - have paper about certified as GCE not enough , the fields experiences is preferd. we all have to many example about supposedly GCE people what don't know , as example, how make simple low-level debug of SIP trafic. or as u said how fix the CCA reports.
[quote]
There are many people here without basic Genesys training; they start everything themselves in the hard way by reading manuals, testing and, of course, posting questions here and there. Their lifes would be a bit easier if they had taken basic Genesys training.
[/quote]
all it's truth but u miss what many of this guys live in different world when EU or USA. for simple training they need not only register and fly to trainng centre, but also got and solve the visas trouble, as example.
And Genesys realy undestud this problem. I have info about local trainning course that start in this year. And in Russia too.
It's certainly simple low-level and entry course, but it all the same good then years ago.
[quote]
Genesys Support is another issue. For reply such as "jast run the wizard and it's do it right. but if in result it's not work jast reinstall it".is quite common; it is possibly, regions and end-user dependent.
[/quote]
may be it realy problems in the our region only, but i mean then we talk about Genesys support - we talk about ALL GENESYS, not about russian or any other regional support team.
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I am reading your posts with great interest and it is a really good and healthy discussion.
I have not touched Genesys for five years and when I was working with Genesys I was using the predecessor to predecessor to predecessor of this site. Does anyone remember it? No graphics, no search and many many many questions all answered by Vitor. I do not remember many of your names except for maybe Tony and Steven Bird.
I took advantage of this board daily and as my cti team grew other people in my group started to use it too. Victor's replies were straight on the money and I remember once he called me and helped me resolve a critical malfunction. I offered him the money, but he refused and asked me to continue using this board and if I can help others. I have instructed my teammates to do just that.
I would think that this forum was already owned by Genesys and I am surprised that it is not. I have read what Victor wrote and I'm amazed Genesys did so little for this incredible website. I checked with cti team and Victor has spurned several of our sponsorship offers because 'offered sponsorship fails to promote the capabilities of Genesys products by relying on competing and/or unrelated technology' [Victor's email to us rejecting our offer] We were very sure that this is because Genesys is gave many support here. Now we know that Victor does this without companies supporting him. I work in a company that is biggest users of Genesys software in continental Europe and what Victor has created here surpasses BI and G-Force. To read Mr. Kraaijvanger's comment disturbs me. Genesys has 100 people working on "engaging community" but he cannot spell Victor's name rightly? A name of a person who drives Genesys internet community? I think I understand why Victor feels so "taken for granted".
I feel that we all will benefit by broader forum scope to include 'competing and/or unrelated technology' and Victor please read my latest mail and think about it. We know you have Star Systems Europe in London and we feel confident our proposal based on the current events is good.
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Hey guys,
I’ve had several conversations in 08 with victor via email, phone, and had the pleasure of meeting Vic in Berlin. When we have identified a problem raised by members, whether technical or commercial, we have always worked to try and address the situation. This is something we done in general for folks at the CTI forum and specifically for Victor.
The issue regarding CTI forum support is a new one and we now need to get to something more specific. There have been a few suggestions but nothing beyond that. To be clear there will be things Genesys can do and can’t do for variety of reasons as there are things that the CTI forum can and can’t do for a variety of reasons. Either way I know there’s opportunity for improvement.
Paul and I are reaching out to Victor to have this dialogue and take it from there.
Thanks! Arnaud
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Hi, guys (and Arnaud)
I have to side with Arnaud on this one, because I don't want to start bashing Genesys: this was not the intent, content, nor do I think there is much to bash Genesys for what is Genesys is not aware of already (except for perhaps still not knowing how to spell my name - you are right there, Sharm ;D )
[color=red]Genesys are the good guys[/color] as far as I am concerned and I don't want people to misconstrue this.
I do, however, I feel that Genesys has dropped the ball on recognizing the importance of this community. I cannot think of a more concentrated Genesys-oriented group of people, who make living on promoting and supporting Genesys products, thus the lack of more active collaboration and support between Genesys and this site is bewildering at best.
As I have said in my previous post, this is something that I blame myself on for not raising this issue earlier.
I am certain that now that Genesys has been made aware of this, (and believe me they were!) I think it is just a matter of time before they realize the potential of this incredible and hard-working community.
Many of you have shared quite a few ideas on what you would like to see on this forum, and I will discuss it with Arnaud shortly.
Once again, let's not forget that Genesys are NOT the bad guys here and that vilifying them will not get us anywhere. (Plus, do we really think that they are? ::) )
Best regards,
Vic
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We're finding that as large as Genesys has gotten, support still feels to us as they are running it like they did 15 years ago. The problm is that there are no personal relationships to dip into for subject matter expertise. One example recently was an integration with Avaya; the "Avaya test guy" was on holiday. Nobody else appeared to have any knowledge of this integration (only is the #1 market share switch!). A hot fix was released over seven months ago, but Support apparently doesn't have a database of hot fixes and are relying on virtually tapping someone on the shoulder via IM or email to ask if a fix has been identified. "Avaya Guy" comes back from holiday and a day later the hot fix has been identified.
The amount of cost in our organization wasted on focusing our resources on working through these fixes is tremendous. It's getting to the point where we may send Genesys an inovice for our wasted time. Perhaps they will invest in the tools and processes to bring Genesys Support up to the 21st century. Then they will only be 9 years behind.... ::)
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I had a feeling we've been here before...
http://www.sggu.com/smf/index.php/topic,2145.0.html
[i]"Bottom Line? Genesys is a world leader, expanding (imho) too rapidly, swallowing technologies quicker than they should - for integration into their own product suite to give them an even stronger hold on the expanding market of interactions, workforce management and customer insight. Taking time out to listen to the customer and thoroughly market testing their products before release would serve them well. Unfortunately, they don't appear to have taken a breath yet and keep on running..."[/i]
Tony
[quote author=Guilden_NL link=topic=3817.msg17282#msg17282 date=1236798022]
We're finding that as large as Genesys has gotten, support still feels to us as they are running it like they did 15 years ago... <SNIP> [/quote]
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Tony,
Yes, it certainly feels like "Back to the Future"! ;D
Maybe we can get Paul Segre to make an investment on a flux capacitor for Genesys Support!
Paul in Genesys Support recovery mode:
[img]http://www.neomanox.com/blog/images/EmmetBrown.jpeg[/img][img]http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/flux-capacitor.jpeg[/img]
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Now, I know I have seen everything!
By the way, people, I have been working my behind off deleting single line profanities from this thread. Please please please try to behave, ok? I have no problem with you saying "frack Genesys" as long as it is part of something more than just one liner with nothing else to add.
Idea is to discuss our problems with Genesys and let our some steam, but I have to shield Tony's virgin eyes each time now whenever I let him browse this thread... Please, help me keep Tony's virginity intact.
Ok, back to the thread... :)
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In otherwords, you want us to keep the thread below 88MPH? Because at 88MPH, the flux capacitor kicks in and we're gonna see some serious BLEEP!
Here's a better word to use in these forums: [url=http://www.moviewavs.com/0053665484/WAVS/Movies/Back_To_The_Future/greatscott3.wav]http://www.moviewavs.com/0053665484/WAVS/Movies/Back_To_The_Future/greatscott3.wav[/url]
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Agreed!!!!