POLL: CGE Certification - Got Yours?

[tony]

Some of you may be aware of an ongoing thread, relating to the worth of a CGE/CGRP Certificate.  I wondered how many held one already and to ask (hopefully the right) questions to see if there is any mileage in trying to set up a group rate at Genesys Training.  This is the best set of questions I could come up with!   - If you think the questions are badly phrased or may not lead us in the right direction, your comments on this thread would be welcome...

[victor]

Hi, Tony,

great poll!!! I like it!
I think that the last poll was a bit too long and focusing too much on the reduced rate.
We would like to know how people see CGE and its importance in workplace as well as whether CGE offering should be expanded to include online as well.

What do you think?  After we polish up the questions, I will post it on the main forum for everyone to see and answer

What do you think about the modified version?
Best regards,
Vic

[tony]

OK!

I would like to try and find out if there is any mileage in getting Genesys to recognize experience, as well and training.  The wealth of knowledge and experience I gained between each Certification (5.2, 6.5 & 7.0) is never taken into consideration.  Let's "assume" that there are PBX/ACD Enineers out there who have had to absorb Genesys as a company has integrated with various components, over time.  It's those types of positions which, although indviduals have gained a wealth of experience, never actually make it to the finishing line of gaining the Certification.  So, one of the intentions of the Poll would be to find out if we can do anything for the many untrained but experienced engineers who take part in this forum, firstly by quantifying them.

How do you think we might add this in, or can this be assumed as a result of the Poll questions we have already?

Tony

[victor]

I want to see if people need CGE to do their job from both employers and employee point of view. Also, we would see if there is a need for certification only and if many people would be interested in taking test only.

There reason is simply to see if we would be able to have some sort of Open CGE certification that we could put together and even though it is not going to be officially recognized by Genesys, perhaps, with time, things might change. Or maybe, Genesys can participate in putting it together with us as well.

Best regards,
Vic

[tony]

Sounds good to me Vic - Would you like to "upgrade" the Poll and we'll see if it's worth trying to pull something together that is close to what you'd expect for a CGE/CGRP...

Tony

[victor]

I was thinking about putting this baby on main board and let it rip.
Any final polishing before we do it?

Guys?

Vic

[René]

Hi guys,

Could you explain me what you mean by the question "Certification exam should be available on-line"... I don't think it's good idea to have some web pages where you can login and make the test. I will bet that everyone pass the exam in that case because you can use documentation, ask colleagues etc. Would such certification make sense?

René

[tony]

Ways and means, I think Rene.  Consider that in the Exam at one of the Genesys Universities, you [i]can [/i] use and refer to [i]all [/i] of your documentation - but the whole thing is timed and, believe me, just because you've passed the exam before doesn't mean you know the answer to every single randomly chosen question!  You may also be subject to the individual exercises as a part of the exam and they way you write a small Routine or create Objects in CME is up to you - ther's no real right or wrong answer - again, this is timed too...

Yes, you could have a bunch of "experts" hunched over a PC and maybe treat it a bit like one of those pub quiz machines but that still wouldn't guarantee [i]you [/i] a pass... 

Tony

[René]

I don't think it's possible to use documentation even when taking the exam in the Genesys University now. Genesys made the exams for release 7 more difficult in reaction to customer's complains about "quality" of certified people. And it's true because the exam for 6.5 certification was more "comedy" then real exam.

Giving the certification exam available on-line will be a step back from my point of view... But of course, that's my opinion only

René

[tony]

...Really? You learn something new every day.  The reasoning was clear from my perspective - you can use your documentation in the exam because that is exactly what you would do in a real scenario.  We had a trainer visit us for 7.0 and it was open book.  I really must try to keep up!

I'll have a think about this one, OK?

Tony

[mark]

Yes, closed book from now on! I noticed this for v7 exams as well. Understandable to an extent.

Mark

[victor]

René,

I did not know it was a closed book, but if it is, I see the concern. Of course, I am also reminded about all the other tests that are available online. I remember taking some test where there was a preset time limit per question and most of the questions were structured in a way that made looking it up a very consuming task.

I have been asking myself again and again what we are trying to achieve by trying to have an online exam, and the answer to me is the problem with the following two statements:

1. Genesys CGE does not really assess the individual knowledge and abilities regarding Genesys understanding and usage
2. Genesys CGE is used as a standard for assessing people's skills regarding Genesys products.

I see many people who are super-qualified to get the work done, but simply cannot afford to take a 1000 USD test. I also had quite a few rather "technically unsavory" individuals get their way into some of the vendors we deal with, and we only find out their lack of skills after the project has been started and the person is placed in charge.

I would like to see an open-CGE test because it would be a low-cost alternative to a certification, which even though does not entitle a person to deal with Genesys directly, will provide a good measure of the person's skills to both their employers and themselves. I also hope that by taking this step, we would prompt a change in Genesys certification practices as well as reduction in certification costs.

I don't remember seeing any sort of official Genesys forum until several years into running this one. In fact, several years ago I had technical director from Genesys Japan write me directly telling me how this forum was BAD for Genesys and they wanted me to shut it down. Many a time I feel that corporate Genesys is not focusing sufficiently enough on people who make their product tick. They also are not paying enough attention to the people outside the North America region. There, our Irvine-based office is having no problem with them, but in Asia, it is simply a joke.

Which is very very strange, because judging from the hits to this forum (as enclosed below) most of the users are from Europe...

[attachimg=1]

Sorry, I got off topic a bit. If there are no objections, I will post the poll on the main board tomorrow.

Best regards,
Vic

[mark]

Vic,

Are you saying that you would like some people very versed in Genesys world to produce some exams that would be an open equivalent of CGE (and the other available exams), that would be more relevant to what people should actually know about, which could then be recognised by employers and the like?

Or is that a bit far fetched from your last post?

Mark

[tony]

Vic,

It would be straighforward enough for employers who maintian an account with Genesys to have their staff added for the purposes of support of their own installed/licensed solutions, with or without certfication of the individual.

Tony

[quote author=victor link=topic=2256.msg8218#msg8218 date=1180508865]
René,

I did not know it was a closed book, but if it is, I see the concern. Of course, I am also reminded about all the other tests that are available online. I remember taking some test where there was a preset time limit per question and most of the questions were structured in a way that made looking it up a very consuming task.

I have been asking myself again and again what we are trying to achieve by trying to have an online exam, and the answer to me is the problem with the following two statements:

1. Genesys CGE does not really assess the individual knowledge and abilities regarding Genesys understanding and usage
2. Genesys CGE is used as a standard for assessing people's skills regarding Genesys products.

I see many people who are super-qualified to get the work done, but simply cannot afford to take a 1000 USD test. I also had quite a few rather "technically unsavory" individuals get their way into some of the vendors we deal with, and we only find out their lack of skills after the project has been started and the person is placed in charge.

I would like to see an open-CGE test because it would be a low-cost alternative to a certification, which even though does not entitle a person to deal with Genesys directly, will provide a good measure of the person's skills to both their employers and themselves. I also hope that by taking this step, we would prompt a change in Genesys certification practices as well as reduction in certification costs.

I don't remember seeing any sort of official Genesys forum until several years into running this one. In fact, several years ago I had technical director from Genesys Japan write me directly telling me how this forum was BAD for Genesys and they wanted me to shut it down. Many a time I feel that corporate Genesys is not focusing sufficiently enough on people who make their product tick. They also are not paying enough attention to the people outside the North America region. There, our Irvine-based office is having no problem with them, but in Asia, it is simply a joke.[/quote]

[Guy Ingram]

I talked with the Certification Manager at the last G-Force in San Diego about this very topic.  Genesys University understands that the exams do not test real-world knowledge.  They are making an effort to change that...as an adjunct instructor with Genesys University in the US, I am adamant about teaching real world to my students.  We make our living with this stuff, we need to understand it.  My philosophy is to teach usable, real-world techniques in addition to the knowledge that Genesys wants the student to have.